What do those short names mean!

[Simon]

OK, so I know there were a few taboo subjects on the other forum regarding shortened cocker names, so now we're here can someone explain the variations between them? Im presuming "wocker" is a working cocker? What are the other ones? And also, some others were suggested too were they not - before they were deleted by the mods? What were they?

Fill me in with the details!!! I need the details!

[lyn]

shocker is show cocker si, which i think is a cool short name and i don't or in fact ever did understand what was so offensive by it. not sure what other short names caused a problem. :11: posts were not deleted because we used the shortened version, they were automatically corrected by the forum software. i haave forgot the rest of your question so i will post and then edit in a minute ;)

[Simon]

No someone said in an earlier post, that some suggested names were removed by the moderators because they already had a naming convention. Can't remember who said it tho.

So we have Wocker and Shocker. Anything else?

[jools]

There is the dog who's name should not be spoken....a sprocker. It's a cross between a springer and a cocker.

[Simon]

THATS the one! :12:

I like it. I shall invest my hard earned pennies in a Sprocker immediately.

[jools]

We meet a braw wee sprocker called Kipper on our walk. He's a wee cracker. There was all yon stuff about them being cross breeds and how bad that was for their health :? and aw that. There's a lot of snobbery in these things too.

[Beth]

I love sprockers, given a choice i'd have had one instead of Jarvis. :oops: His parents weren't health tested, so he's no more gaurenteed to be healthy than a cross breed, and yet i've never been pounced on about it, purely because he's pedigree. :roll:

[lyn]

omg yes i remember now, the lovely sprocker. in fact the cocker and the springer were one and the same dog. they were classed as either springer or cocker from the same litter depending on their size so technically there is no mixed breeding there anyway. a lot of working cockers have a certain ancestor who was a springer ;) genetically they are all from the same place. i hate dog snobbery. there are people out there breeding so called designer dogs what are really mongrels. i wouldn't be surprised if labradoodles wern't being shown at crufts in the future. essentially all breeds of dog started off as some kind of cross at some point in the past. like the labradoodles they were bred from for specific purposes needed at that time.
i would love a sprocker. they're cool 8-)

[happydog]

Not banned, but certainly looked down upon, is the use of shortened names of crosses between two pedigree dogs of different breeds, which can lead to it being thought of as a pedigree breed in it's own right, when it is not. For example a Labradoodle- a cross between a labrador and a poodle.

I can understand this in a way, because if such a name becomes common usage then people can be misled into thinking they are buying a recognised breed, which of course will be reflected in the price, when in fact, lovely as they are, they are a crossbreed. The sire and dam are unlikely to have had relevant health checks for the breeds either. Nor do you know which traits will be inherited, so any cross such as this is an unknown quantity, in size, looks, health and temperament. Generally people who breed and promote such crosses as the latest 'must have' are not the most scrupulous of people... :cry:

[lyn]

i agree happydog. i am still astounded that people will pay more for a cross bred dog. there were labradoodles for sale here recently for £700 :o but, the lab and poodle were first crossed for people who needed a guide dog but were allergic to the dog hair. this to me was a fair reason for the cross in the first place. ;)

[Simon]

But you'd think a potential buyer would ask the right questions to determine the history of the dog before purchase.

And if false information is given, that person then reserves the right to batter the person who lied to them! :07:

[lyn]

not always as straight forward as that si, when we bought paddy we were not exactly told the truth of his breeding i suppose he was a shwocker :11: i thought that by getting his breeders number from the kc website that the breeder was good and honest :11: boy i was soo wrong.
strange how lots of cocker breeders are so against splitting the worker/show breeding into two different lines with regards to the kennel club registration yet they abhor the breeding of sprockers. that to me makes no sense.

[Alpha]

I really cannot see what is wrong with sprockers if they are springer cross wocker. They were exactly the same dog at one point and only seperated by size and weight. I think if it is a shocker cross then you would probably get a steadier dog (allegedly).It is a bit like a proper lurcher isn't it....not one of these new "doodles" that are in every free ad paper and website costing in excess of £400+ well you know what they say a fool and his money. I understand the concept of the Ladradoodle in so much as the guide dogs would be easier to cope withh if they didn't shed...but most of these breeds do anyway so the only point I can see is breeders making a fortune on the back of this latest fad....7/8 years time how many of them will be in rescues as confused little dogs that are neither one thing or another.

[lyn]

the little toy crosses are starting to show up in rescue now alpha :x my main problem with labradoodles is that most people want the curly coated ones. what happens to the smoothies :?:

[Simon]

Damn. If only i'd studied genetics - i'd be SO rich now.....

[happydog]

Damn. If only i'd studied genetics - i'd be SO rich now.....
I did and I'm not!!! :04:

[Alpha]

I regularly bump into the dog warden and he was saying that the amount of people that have bought poodle bitches to jump on the band wagon is quite high, as they can use any stud dog and Yee Hay you have a "doodle dandy time" taking all your money to the bank. A high percentage of doodles do drop and are not curly, but if you want a non drop curly dog why not just get a poodle..at least they come in all colours and sizes.
I am patiently waiting fot he first "pitadoodle" which I am sure won't take long.
My concern with wockers is that until recently they have not been too popular with the shooting fraternity or the puppy buying public (I am sure most were bought in error for pets) but now that they are becoming more popular are they now going to suffer with all the health probs that shockers have. These are a very healthy dog with little or no herediatary problems (YET). So when you look at the physical, mental and hereditary health profile these are two different breeds completely and I think that they should have a different status with the KC like the field and springer etc.... Lilly looks absolutely nothing like a show cocker what so ever, she looks and acts more like a small springer, so i would be happy with them being called ESS (minatures).
I do think people avoid Springers if they are not into a active life style but think ALL cockers are the same.

[Beth]

Maybe it's because i was brought up with a springer, but i always thought of cockers as little springers anyway. :? Tis a good job really, if i'd gotten a shocker expecting a calm little dog Jarvis would have been a huge shock. :09:

[happydog]

I couldn't agree more Alpha. Only this morning I had a chap call to do some work who was admiring Fern. He has a cocker but didn't recognise Fern as one. He looked extremely doubtful when I explained that there are two strains and that Fern was a pedigree too. He looked as though he wanted to say that we had been 'had'.
The show cocker has been selectively bred for traits that are not particularly beneficial for a working breed, so perhaps they should be renamed :09: :lol:
I just had to say that 'cos i know what would have happened if I had suggested it on another forum :D

[Alpha]

I'm sure the out come would of been similar to ours you would be banned and damned.
I put a post saying the same thing and was told in no uncertain terms that wockers and shockers are so similar that the KC would never allow the split to happen, lots of stuff about how they have the same energy levels and skill at hunting etc..I'm sure some shockers are like that its just i haven't seen one. And I would debate the fact that it probably had some worker in it somewhere for it to be like that.

[Alpha]

The show cocker has been selectively bred for traits that are not particularly beneficial for a working breed, so perhaps they should be renamed :09: :lol:
I just had to say that 'cos i know what would have happened if I had suggested it on another forum :D
I missed this bit before sorry. But yes HD you are right the dogs are named after there ability with Woodcock so yes they should keep the name. But what would you call shockers then? I suppose they could use the american terminology and call them English Cocker Spaniels, I think that would go down like a lead balloon.

[happydog]

I missed this bit before sorry. But yes HD you are right the dogs are named after there ability with Woodcock so yes they should keep the name. But what would you call shockers then?
Interesting question. I haven't really thought about it tbh. I suppose Show Cocker would be too simplistic :| but as you say
I think that would go down like a lead balloon. too!!!

What irritates me is that I couldn't show Fern (not that I want to) with any chance of success, as the KC breed standard is designed for a shocker not a wocker. So a wocker would never get placed. As they are so different then why should the KC insist (and we only have the word of people on another forum that that is the case :07: )they are too similar to be considered separate breeds :? ?

[happydog]

Sorry Simon, we seem to have moved a little off topic here :11:

[Alpha]

best open a new thread and start a war.

[happydog]

best open a new thread and start a war.
:09: :lol: ;)

[lyn]

i am not against sprockers. at least when you buy one you know you are buying a cross.
for those who don't know the story of paddy first look at this photo
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/lynpate/HPIM0470.jpg
he was my black and tan show cocker, well he was sold to us as a show cocker but he was a shwocker. he was wonderful :13: sadly he had severe seperation anxiety and when i got a job he couldn't cope :cry: :cry:
my point is i bought him and someone else bought a puppy from the same litter we both mentioned we would love to show them. it was never once addressed by the breeder that it would not be possible to show them. this is what really gets me. i paid hundreds of pounds for him and basically he was a cross. if the different strains were seperated then there will be fewer people making the costly mistake i made.
i so wish he still lived here. ellie doesn't miss him but me and jim do :cry:

[Alpha]

the thing is if I were a judge I would definitely place him he was such a looker :09:

[lyn]

not was alpha is ;) we had to rehome him earlier in the year, he was just 18 months. a stunning little man but as a puppy he was awful. i mean proper awful too. of course he has more character than any other dog i know. he's fab. still has the worst sep anx i have ever known in a dog tho. luckily his new dad idolises him and he is never left alone. not even for half an hour. paddy is now really really spoilt. next time we meet for a run with them i will take the camera :D

[Nicola]

You can say Sprocker on COL, it doesn't get changed or commented on. I know the thread has moved on a bit since then though!

[lyn]

i agree nicola, i don't remember any problems with the word sprocker. i think i can only remember one post about sprockers recently on there.

[jean]

well Ive got one ( a sprocker) And Ive never been ticked off for calling her a sprocker.. ?? I didnt know the word sprocker wasnt PC!
with regard to the show cocker Id rather they do here as they do in finland that all show cockers entering competitions have to pass simple basic working trials too so that at least they retain their ability to use there nose and brain in the way it was meant.
but I doubt that will happen. I think all dogs going to crufts should have to meet the purpose for which they were bred..ie gundogs do basic gundog work and so on throughout the breeds. whats the chance of that then eh?